Pillars of Eternity Wiki talk:Guidelines/Screenshots

"Screenshots"? Or a more general naming?
So, I've linked to an images guideline in the first paragraph. This would be a guideline where topics such as categorizing in general for Category:Images would be handled and – most important – the licensing of an image.

Now the question raises: Should we make only one image guideline in general, pointing to the screenshots category in a "Screenshots" section and adding all the GUI and post-processing stuff there? Or should we make the general guideline and sub-linking to several specific pages, as the screenshots guideline? Opinions? --  -- You talkin' to me? -- cCContributions -- 12:33, 17 February 2017 (UTC)


 * I intend to fill all the sections that are currently stubs (and maybe add more), so it'll be a relatively long document even without adding the general image guidelines (licensing etc.). And except for "Uploading screenshots" and "Categorizing screenshots", all sections planned so far will contain screenshot-specific content. So I think it's okay to keep this as a separate document. --Ineth2 (talk) 13:44, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Zoom range
I'm not sure I totally agree to your choice(s) of a specific zoom range for one or more types of screenshots, @Ineth2. I'm currently not in the game to verify my thoughts right now, but here's what's coming to my mind: Apart from this you're creating a pretty good and helpful article. No, not "apart from this", my disagreements have nothing to do with the quality of your writing. :o)
 * I see no reason why to mention a possibility of an NPC screenshot where the feet have to be cut off. If all those screenshots are made with the same zoom range, then this simply wouldn't happen.
 * (By the way, is "must" stronger than "have to be", or why did you change that?)
 * If 0.35 was the actual zoom range for the Edér screenshot, then I admit that it's perfectly showing his face – but I think, it should instead show the whole body. As the tallest regular NPCs are aumaua, that range should be chosen in a way that the whole e.g. Kana Rua character's visible on the screenshot, perhaps also with a non-cut-off arbalest.
 * Transferred to the creature screenshots this also would mean you see the whole troll, not only his upper body. And wouldn't have only a cropped portrait of a dragon.
 * I suppose you don't know the zoom range used for Captain Muārumi? That's nearly perfect, would only have to be reduced by 0.1 or 0.2 or so, to show the hat's feather and not cut off his boots.
 * And for the quest ones I suggest a little more freedom. There might be scenes, such as several "combat lineup" images from the bounty quests, where a fixed 1.5 doesn't get the whole picture. So here either a change in possible zoom ranges or image size.

You could mention that the zoom range setting is applied globally and doesn't change for a new game and such. And a note regarding disabled achievements when using the other cheats should be placed, just as a warning.

For the Verify tag at how to make a Windows screenshot and use Paint: I can verify your description. I can change/expand and verify the Steam version later, when I've played again. Usually, when you're tabbing out of or exiting the game, the screenshot uploader window appears automatically, showing you those from the current/last session. --  -- You talkin' to me? -- cCContributions -- 16:03, 21 February 2017 (UTC)


 * RE cutting off feet, and Captain Muārumi: I'm not sure I understand your argument. The four example screenshots in the #NPC infobox screenshots section are all taken at zoom level 0.35, as are almost all currently existing NPC screenshots (unless I've made mistakes when taking them, which can occasionally happen). Note that the four example images are not shown at full size here though, in case that got you confused. The note about cutting off feet / legs / lower body, is necessary so that in a case like the Captain Muārumi, uploaders won't try to make him "fit" by letting his skull touch the top edge of the image, which doesn't look good.
 * --Ineth2 (talk) 18:14, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
 * --Ineth2 (talk) 18:14, 21 February 2017 (UTC)


 * RE Edér: That screenshot was indeed also taken at zoom level 0.35, and is shown here at full resolution. It wasn't cropped to NPC infobox dimensions though, because cropping isn't the topic of this subsection. If he were cropped to NPC infobox dimensions, his whole body would fit in the image (though the bow would still be cut off).
 * --Ineth2 (talk) 18:14, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
 * --Ineth2 (talk) 18:14, 21 February 2017 (UTC)


 * RE selecting the zoom factor so that a whole aumaua fits: That's essentially what I did, back when I uploaded most of these images: An aumaua will fit neatly if he's indoors and directly facing the camera. But it turns out that large headgear may be partially cut off, and feet may be partially cut off if he's standing sidewards or outdoors (where a lower camera angle is used). I don't think that's a problem, though: In practice, when placed in an infobox, it looks perfectly good to me. Also, choosing a slighlty more zoomed-out zoom level would not only mean having to re-do all existing portraits, but would also make small characters and creatures have even more blank space around the character, and at some point it'll look weird. TL;DR: I like the "compromise zoom level" 0.35 for everyone.
 * --Ineth2 (talk) 18:14, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
 * --Ineth2 (talk) 18:14, 21 February 2017 (UTC)


 * RE More flexibility for Quest infobox screenshots: I actually used to make them at various zoom levels, but in practice it looked a bit amateurish. In particular, putting huge scenes with many characters in the infobox (where it'll be scaled down to infobox width) looks really bad, because viewers won't be able to make out anything in the image.
 * When I switched to making all new Quest infobox screenshots according to the stated specification, it really felt like it made that part of the wiki look more consistent and professional. Bounty pages are no exception to this: The way I've currently done them (with a zoomed-in spec-compliant screenshot in the infobox, and a zoomed-out screenshot showing the whole line-up in the body of the page), looks pretty good to me.
 * More generally, people trying to convey too much information with an infobox image, has become sort of a pet peeve of mine. Infobox images are not a good place to show everything in all detail of what the page is about, it's a good place to give a first visual impression and to assure viewers that they're looking at the right page. (The current NPC and quest pages mostly follow the stated spec, and I think it's nice that viewers can immediately know whether they're viewing an NPC page or a quest page by looking how zoomed-out the infobox image is. Such visual cues are not really important, but they're nice – and they contribute to a general sense of consistency on the wiki.)
 * --Ineth2 (talk) 18:14, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
 * --Ineth2 (talk) 18:14, 21 February 2017 (UTC)


 * RE showing the whole body of a dragon with all appendages: That's what the "Gallery" section of an NPC/Creature page is for. (Basically, the same argument as the previous point). I think letting Creature pages use the same spec as NPC pages, gives a nice sense of how big or small a creature is and what their face looks like (i.e. gives a nice "first impression" of the creature), and once creature pages will show images of all their sub-species, it will also make them look better next to each other if they're all taken at the same zoom level.
 * --Ineth2 (talk) 18:14, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
 * --Ineth2 (talk) 18:14, 21 February 2017 (UTC)


 * RE "must" vs "have to be": I think "must" makes it sound less weird as a sentence without a subject.
 * --Ineth2 (talk) 18:14, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
 * --Ineth2 (talk) 18:14, 21 February 2017 (UTC)


 * RE achievements being disabled: AFAIK this doesn't happen when you use a cheat code, it happens when you fully unlock the console in the first place (the "iroll20s" thing), and that's covered on the console command page I'm pointing readers to in case they need instructions for how to use the console. Or am I missing something?
 * --Ineth2 (talk) 18:14, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
 * --Ineth2 (talk) 18:14, 21 February 2017 (UTC)


 * RE Verifying/updating the Steam instructions: Please do. (I only have the Linux version from GOG, so I based the Windows/Steam instructions on what I read online.)
 * --Ineth2 (talk) 18:14, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
 * --Ineth2 (talk) 18:14, 21 February 2017 (UTC)