Talk:A Shrewd Proposition

look, Tagaziel, if you're going to edit something, make sure you don't break it while doing so eh?

I undid your last revision because it broke half the quest walkthrough.
 * I'm not sure what was broken, I've checked the previous version and all that was removed was the illustration and information on loot for supporting Aeldys/Atsura/Wahaki. I've restored it - unless something really is broken fundamentally and I'm just blind. Tagaziel (talk) 04:27, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

everything after: "Wiping out Crookspur" was missing.

I put it back.

so yes, apparently you ARE blind :)
 * That's very odd. This is the diff for your edit, showing only changes in the infobox. It might be that you were served the old, cached version of the page. It sometimes has a brainfart like that. Tagaziel (talk) 10:26, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

In my current run I wanted to change things up from my last runs and help the slavers for a change while alliance myself with the RDC. I counted on an anecdote from Clearing Out Crookspur's wiki that you can help the slavers and clear them out later on. This was not the case however, the quest auto-failed when I tried to start it, so I edited that line there at the quest's wiki page. Now when I came to a point at the quest The Coming Storm when I actually want to forge an alliance with the RDC it appears like I can't do that anymore at all because I helped the slavers. When I talk to Hazanui Karū she mention the slavers that need to be cleared and doesn't give me the quest The Final Maneuver. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1v1tKtL3PXxJDZNAUAb5YirYdyvkHQJ5j/view Not being able to side with the RDC is a Major consequence for helping the slavers and IMHO it should be added to the wiki pages related to the help/clear the slavers issue (like here in that nice table of V and X etc) and to The Coming Storm too for example. I don't want to mess things up so I write this asking for some moderator to help please. I managed to start the quest with the console command 'StartQuest FCT_QST_RDC06_Coup' and it went fine from there. Thanks. Benedicter (talk) 17:03, 3 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Okay, I've just finished doing a ton of testing to confirm this, and yes you are correct - completing A Shrewd Proposition in favour of the slavers, (actually regardless of if you've completed it or not, just as long as you complete Tip of the Spear), will cause you to fail Clearing Out Crookspur as soon as you return to Atsura. However I did find that if you kill Master Kua, even after completing Tip of the Spear and A Shrewd Proposition, you can still return to Atsura in the RDC and hand in the quest just fine.


 * Either way, I agree that Clearing Out Crookspur should have more of a place on this page, though I don't know if failing it actually locks you out of the RDC entirely. Last I checked I think this is more of a result of cumulative actions or progressing too far in one faction than another, not solely as a result of failing Clearing Out Crookspur. Further repercussions will need to be tested, but for now I think mentioning that it is a possible consequence is important. Macklin (talk) 08:52, 4 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your reply and testing. I just want to add that in my game I always sided with the RDC (I even gave the Huana chart to that RDC captain after I got it in The Last Sanctuary, later lied to the Huana that I didn't find it so no bad blood yet) except with the slavers issue (like I said, I just wanted to change things up). In addition, I never progressed too far in one faction, I always did them concurrently and made sure of that. I did all the faction quests I could before He Waits in Fire and after that at The Coming Storm snubbed out the Huana and the VTC, killed Aeldys and went to talk with Hazanui Karū to start final RDC quest. You can see in my added link (download it if from some reason you cant view it there) that I have no open faction quests (except last Principi one) and also when I check the 'show completed' checkbox you can see I did them all. This is not about progressing in one faction IMHO. Looking again at my conversation with Karu maybe it's more of a conversation options problem/bug but a result of siding with the slavers nonetheless. You tested the Clearing Out Crookspur quest issue, so after failing that quest maybe try continue a little more to start The Coming Storm and see that it locks you out from The Final Maneuver. Benedicter (talk) 11:50, 4 February 2021 (UTC)


 * It could very well be a cutoff point, but it seems to be way too harsh a consequence so early in the game, especially when you say that you've been buddies with the RDC throughout your playthrough, hence my skepticism. As you mentioned, I agree it could also be a logical or conversation bug that is preventing you from getting the next quest in the RDC chain. However, the RDC occupying Crookspur is narratively pretty important so maybe it's just a big issue for them. I did have a look at your video earlier, and it helped in setting up a similar approach - I'll be sure refer to it when I continue testing what happens with the RDC after failing Clearing Out Crookspur, and whether I get to the same conclusion. Macklin (talk) 13:21, 4 February 2021 (UTC)


 * OK, my point is that even if it's just a bug it's still a huge consequence of siding with the slavers and if my game is not enough proof of that (I understand why) I think it's important to continue and test it. I wish I knew that before I helped the slavers. Also, what did you mean by writing in the article "There may be some crossover, but typically this will result in more bad outcomes than good"? its not clear if you meant more bad clearing or wiping the slavers. IMHO its surely more beneficial to clear them, you lose their quest but gaining rep with the Huana and the RDC while principi rep gain on either cases. Even the VTC gives you rep (less but still) (at the table maybe the 'Minor Positive reputation with the VTC' at the 'Wipe out the Crookspur slavers' column shouldn't be red? maybe grey? its still positive rep, not negative). Again thanks for your help. Benedicter (talk) 13:50, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

I just meant that there are edge cases where a player might be able to complete some quests in the pro-Crookspur and some quests in the anti-Crookspur categories, and not just stick to one side, depending on which quests they have, the order they're handed in, etc etc. The game however seems to be geared towards doing it strictly one way or the other and not somewhere in between, just in terms of how it (tries to) catch fail conditions to make sure you don't do anything strange or hacky. This isn't a comment on which side is more beneficial (I tend to avoid that anyway since it can be subjective), just a comment on how the entire quest arc isn't entirely black and white as it may be presented on the page.

The colours in the table just match up with the "good" or "bad" outcomes, they're not necessarily a representation of if the reward is good or bad, in this case it just means the lesser of the two rewards (Of Like Minds is fairly inconsequential anyway). If you think this might confuse people you're welcome to change it :)

I've just tested a bit further. After starting The Coming Storm, talking to either Atsura or Hazanui Karū and exhausting their dialogue tree doesn't seem to start The Final Maneuver at all. The Hazanui simply talks about the slavers on Crookspur despite the fact that this quest has already failed: "The slavers on Crookspur have menaced the region too long." and the Watcher responds with "I've already received the details from Atsura", mimicing your recording. After this, I tested various different orders of handing in all the quests associated with helping the slavers, all of which had the same effect.

Next I checked the dialogue the Hazanui uses after starting The Coming Storm which determines whether The Final Maneuver is started, giving you a choice to side with the RDC permanently. It has two conditions:
 * 1) That A Matter of Import as been completed (true in this case)
 * 2) That the flag b_RDC04_Returned_To_Atsura is set to 1.

This flag is exclusively set if you return to Atsura after killing Kua, and if you don't kill Kua it's never set. So it seems that you're 100% correct. Whether this flag is supposed to be triggered, I guess we'll never know. Though I'm inclined to believe that the additional dialogue with Karu is just the designers failing to clean up, not a result of a bug or oversight in how the logic should work with the quest, though the lack of a response similar to Atsura's when you return to him makes me a bit suspicious. Anyway, I don't really see any way around it besides using console commands. Future wiki-goers can use  before speaking to the Hazanui (after The Coming Storm has started, and of course after finishing A Matter of Import) in order to more "naturally" force your way ahead, as opposed to starting the quest manually.

Sorry if I seemed a bit hesitant, I just like to test these sorts of things before stating them as fact. Clearly if it happened to you it was either definitely a thing, or it's something that could potentially happen, I'd just wanted to find out which one it was. I'll start to add some warnings to the associated pages. Thanks for bringing this bit of info to light! Macklin (talk) 17:23, 4 February 2021 (UTC)


 * You are smart to be hesitant, I don't expect my only experience in helping the slavers to be the guide on the subject. I just meant that because of the importance of this quest and its potential repercussions, further testing should be done so we can get a definitive answer, and thank you for that. Also thank you for adding those warnings to the associated pages. That is exactly what I wanted, that future wiki-goers will know what they are getting themselves into by siding with the slavers, for better or for worse. Benedicter (talk) 18:57, 4 February 2021 (UTC)