Talk:Periki

I've undone two changes that suggest that Periki only "refounded" the Watershaper's Guild. I usually go through dialogue and cyclopedia entries to fact check things like this, and I can only find the opposite. The cyclopedia entry for Periki even says "Periki was an explorer and founder of the Watershapers Guild".

As far as I can surmise, Watershaping (i.e. the actual art of it) existed long before Periki, but only in small numbers among the social elite. The guild itself was formed by to teach and refine the art, drawing from her research into ancient Huana society.

Without any evidence to back up the claims, I'd much prefer to keep the descriptions from the game, even if they do not go into detail. Macklin (talk) 13:15, 21 June 2019 (UTC) I think the game comes to contradict in the story of Periki, in many sites is kwon as the founder of the Watershapers Guild. When I created the other day the Periki page I did based on what I put in the background of Watershapers Guild, which talks about Periki as a character who lived the destruction of Ukaizo centuries ago. But on the timeline page and the Huana page of the Wiki he appears as an influential guildmaster who reorganized the existing watershapers.

I decided to take the second as true based on the conversation you have with the dragon locked in the guild, which talks about how Periki agreed with him a few years ago, approximately when the Ruatai arrived.

Perhaps a possible solution would be to say that he actually founded the guild but in the year 2801, not in the Onda's cataclysm.

What do you think??

Sorry for my English beforehand, it's not my native language. -- Preceding unsigned comment was added by 92.177.159.164 (talk). Please sign your posts with -- . I read the conversation with Scyorielaphas, but it doesn't explain much on the whole, but does give us some insight to Periki's actions regarding his entrapment.

One source I didn't consider was the guidebook - do you have access to this? It goes into detail regarding the history, and actually does confirm the existence of the Watershaper's as a guild before Periki took charge - this is one of the many contradictions in the game, as the game seems to push the fact that Periki founded the guild.

I'm not 100% certain on the timelines of Rauatai and Vailians, but I'm sure that foreigners were always an issue with the Huana, not just limited to around Periki's time.

Here's the excerpt:

In some respects, the game is correct - she did found the modern-day guild, if you're talking about the actual building/location, plus the whole dragon thing. In addition, she also revitalized the guild as it was known in the past. The guild as an organization existed long before Periki, but they never had a place to convene, and it was more just a collection of Storm Speakers. After reading this excerpt, and a number dialogue entries, I've come to a conclusion.

If I understand everything correctly:
 * The watershapers (as an artform) existed before Periki, but only as a smattering of Storm Speakers. The excerpt describes these as "the early masters of the guild".
 * They were immobilized as a force by the Huana to keep back the Vailians and Rauatians, but given the low number of watershapers, this force wasn't seen to it's full capacity.
 * The art of ancient watershaping seemed to have been lost over generations, hence the lack of them.
 * Periki, through her research and use of the Rod of the Deep Hunter, was able to restore the ancient artform to it's former glory, and revitalize the guild by enslaving Scyorielaphas.
 * Periki built the Watershapers Guild in Neketaka around the dragon. This is what I think the game means when it says she "founded" the guild.

So I'd suggest that the guild (as a faction, not a location) existed before Periki. It's known that it was a collection of Storm Speakers, but to what degree they were an actual "guild" is unknown. The wording seems to suggest that since Periki "assumed a leadership position in the guild", there was a guild to begin with. In addition, the opening sentence says that the Storm Speakers were the early masters of the guild - I'm not sure if this means that they became masters of the guild that was to be formed, or if they were already guild masters to begin with.

In an attempt to make more sense of the game mentioning Periki as the founder and "First Guildmaster of the Watershapers Guild", I'd say that her "founding" is referring to the construction of the location (and NOT the guild as a faction), along with the work she'd done to revitalize the artform (i.e. the deal with the dragon). So in fact, we're both right in a way. This is confirmed in several locations, mainly in the dialogue in the quest The Shadow Under Neketaka:
 * Queen Onekaza II: "Periki captured the dragon long ago and built the guild around his prison."
 * Scyorielaphas: "Periki and her mages crafted this prison with the rod you carry."

So, I think the appropriate action is to add a faction page for the Watershapers, perhaps just called Watershapers Guild (faction), which would cover history of the organization itself, both in the ancient form and it's modern day form. The location page Watershapers Guild does not need this full history, and perhaps can just include parts about the location itself, and it's founding. The page Periki of course can be more about the character, perhaps with a brief explanation of her back story (or at least what little there is of it). As you mention, we can confirm that she founded the guild in 2801. The sentence that reads "the wake of Ondra's cataclysmic destruction of the remnants of Engwith" just refers to the fact that Periki existed the time where cultures were still finding their footing in the Deadfire, and is slightly irrelevant/indeterminate. Macklin (talk) 10:19, 22 June 2019 (UTC)